“2 Faces Of Addiction”- Interview With Retired Bounty Hunter Dee Sanders



James Egidio: 0:41

Hi, my name is James Egidio, your host of the 99Relapses podcast. The podcast that moves you from recovery to discovery through the grace and mercy of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Before I get started, I just wanted to mention a couple things, and that is probably one of the worst things that a parent can go through is a child who has experienced an out of control addiction it’s not until the unexpected late night call from the jail or morgue, and that’s when you start to question your parenting skills with such questions as, where did I go wrong with parenting? Could I have done more or what happened to that person I used to carry in my arms? My guest for 30 years served as a professional bail bonds woman, bounty hunter, and process server. In her career, she has encountered drug lords, violent criminals, and even murderers who have put hits on her life. However, she never anticipated that the world of drug and alcohol addiction would reach her so close to home with a family member. She wrote a book called “Hanging by Faith” about her experience in law enforcement, as well as how addiction turned her family member’s life and her life upside down. She’s retired from her career so she can work full-time helping individuals who are struggling with addiction. It is my pleasure and a blessing. To introduce my guest to the 99 Relapses podcast, Ms. Dee Sanders, Hi Dee.Dee Sanders: 2:16

Hi James. First of all, thank you for having me.James Egidio: 2:19

Oh, absolutely. Thank you for coming to this podcast episode. Appreciate it. Please share with the viewers and listeners your story about your years as a bounty hunter, and we can go from there.Dee Sanders: 2:33

Okay. I started my career when I was 25 years old. I was newly divorced and trying to raise a baby, my son, single handedly and I worked part-time, a kind of a fill in for an attorney and while his secretary was on maternity leave, and he told me, They’re in need of a bail bondsman in this area, and I just think you have the Moxi for it. And he really encouraged me. And the more I checked it out and I decided, Hey that’s my calling. And that’s the career that I want. I loved the the thrill, the adrenaline rush. No two days were ever the same. And so I started studying and became a licensed professional bail bonds woman. Back then, it was really taboo for women to be bail bonds women. But even more when I started bounty hunting as a profession as well, that was extremely taboo. So I lo I met a lot of resistance from law enforcement, from male chauvinist. It was just so taboo. Nobody could believe that a woman could go and arrest someone or should be bailing someone out of jail. And so I had to work hard to prove myself that I was very capable of doing it. And after about 15, 20 arrest, I started gaining the respect of the community and started making a name for myself. Throughout the 25 year career as a bounty hunter, I made just over 650 arrests, and roughly about 75% of them I did single handedly. And that included drug lords, murderers, rapists you name it. Down to drunk driving, it is just I don’t think there was, I bonded someone for counterfeiting money. I did arrest a drug, Lord, and from his jail cell, he put a hit out on my life. Wow. During that time, I had to hide my son until we could catch the person that was supposed to be looking for me to kill me. It was never a dull moment, that’s for sure. I was on call 24 hours a day seven days a week. And so every day I worked. Yeah.James Egidio: 4:56

What are some of the things that you encountered over the years that Permeated into, the world of drugs. beause you know, as today currently, there’s a major epidemic of fentanyl and so on and so forth, oh, yes. The open border situation. What are some of the things that you’d like to share with the audience as the people that you encountered no, the people that you encountered.Dee Sanders: 5:16

That’s the rough thing about it. When you’re on meth and you’ve been up for days on the end and you’re so paranoid, so you, that you have to use extreme caution with them because you never know their behavior. It’s like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, if. If they’re not high, you can handle ’em. And if they’re high, it’s just almost impossible to reason with them. And at the same time, you got family members that love ’em and trying to get ’em help, and they don’t wanna see ’em in jail, but yet they don’t want to. They know as soon as they bond them outta jail, 30 minutes after they’re out, they’re high. Working with the families through the years my heart went out to ’em because, they love their child or their husband or whomever but they don’t like what they do. I worked with mothers that would bond their child out every single time. Later on when I had started having problems with my son on a personal level, I come to terms with, Hey, maybe jail not a bad idea. That’s, it’s not always bad because first of all, that’s the starting point. I learned to keep ’em there, let ’em get, their brain is in a fog when they’re high, and it takes, if they’ve been high for months on end or years or whatever, it takes a good 90 days for your brain to come out of that fogginess to where you can even think clear.James Egidio: 6:43

Sure, no, it’s interesting you say that because I know working with clients especially the ones that are addicted to heroin, the opiates that is heroin and, prescription pain medications and what not the biggest challenge, I think as a counselor and a coach for addiction and recovery, and I’ve been on the secular side, and the faith-based side of that is the, with I call, and I address this in episode number two, it’s called stabilization, where you’re dealing with clients who are withdrawing from, let’s say the opiates and they’re going through physical withdrawal symptoms. So it’s just it’s really difficult and it’s challenging to get them, like you say, because their mind is scattered and yes, they’re so discombobulated and they’re not and they just, they’re trying to get through the physical withdrawals, so to stabilize. Once they’re stabilized, they’re fine, but until you get them stabilized, it’s really a challenge.Dee Sanders: 7:41

When my son in his early twenties, the love of his life broke up with him and moved to another state, and a friend gave him hydrocodone and said, Try these. It’ll help all the pain. Whatever reason he done that, I don’t know. But he loved the way hydrocodone made him feel. And the next thing I know, he’s addicted. And his demeanor, his attitude changed, hateful, narcissistic personality. The red flags were there. I, he started stealing money, jewelry from me. It was just horrible. And about two years into it, maybe a little bit longer, he overdosed and he was airlifted to a hospital about an hour and a half from where we lived and where he was placed on life support for five days. I stood over his bed and prayed that whole time that was his rock bottom. And the doctors could not promise me that he would live or be brain dead, have his kidneys, there was just no promises could be made at all at that point. So the fifth day I walk in to ICU and he didn’t have tubes hooked up to him anymore, and I was just, Oh, thank you. So he came home from the hospital and went straight back to the drug house. and I thought, that might not be his rock bottom, but it is mine. So I decided to put a plan in place I knew that I had to get him in jail, and I put a criminal trespass against him knowing that he would break it. That morning I had him served, for him to stay away from my house. And by five o’clock that afternoon there he was. So I called the sheriff’s office and said, Come get him. And I already had a long-term rehab picked out and I talked to the liaison and I set up an intervention for the next morning at the jail. And so that man from the rehab came and me and my new husband, I had just gotten married done an intervention at the jail. And here in Arkansas, criminal trespass can carry up to a year in jail. I knew I wasn’t gonna do that, but he just didn’t know what my son and I told him either go to this long term rehab, 15 months, or stay a, year in jail, you take your pick. And he quickly signed the release to go to the rehab. So I had all of his clothes and stuff packed and off he went. And the first 60 days he couldn’t make any calls or anything, and I said, That’s fine, he’s detoxing, And about four months goes fine. I still haven’t heard anything. And I kept calling his sponsor there and she said, He has not called you. And I said, No, I guess he’s still mad at me About another month goes by and my phone rings, and the first words outta his mouth was, I love you. And I knew at that point in time he was clear minded and he knew that I had to do that in order to save his life and for my own health benefits. Because man, as a parent and watching your child, number one steal from you call you ever name in the book, if you don’t give them money, they threaten to burn your house down. Your stress level can only take so much. Sure. And the first night that he was in rehab was the first good night’s sleep I’d literally had in about two and a half, three years. And today, that was about eight years ago. He’s got eight years of sobriety in.James Egidio: 11:38

Oh wow. That’s awesome. What is he doing now?Dee Sanders: 11:42

right now he is doing carpentry type work and stuff like that, so he’s self-employed.James Egidio: 11:49

Nice. So he is gainfully employed. He’s got his own business, I take it.Dee Sanders: 11:53

Yes.James Egidio: 11:54

So let me back up a little bit. What are some of the signs that tipped you off about your son’s addiction at that time?Dee Sanders: 12:01

The red flags is a change in attitude, not working, stealing. Stuff has started coming up, missing, and I knew by the friends that he was hanging out with because, with me being a bail bondsman and bounty hunter I know this is a rural area and I know everybody and I know pretty much who is in addiction and who is not. And so that’s a lot of the red flags. Their sleeping pattern. He started losing a lot of weight. I’ve seen people so paranoid on hydros or meth or just whatever, that they spend all their time peeking through a keyhole to make sure the cops are not coming to get ’em. It’s just you. They get so antsy, they can’t set steel. It was like he turned from daylight and dark overnight. At the time, I did not realize his friend had offered him hydros, or I would’ve tried to intervene at the very beginning. You know what? When you see someone every day a loved one, it’s gradual. And so you have to know the warning signs, the red flags to be looking for, or before you know it, they’re in full blown addiction. If you can head it off at the path before it gets that out of control, it’s much easier to deal with than try to get it stopped.James Egidio: 13:20

Did he go through any physical withdrawals when he quit using the opiates?Dee Sanders: 13:26

Yes. Now, several times he tried to quit, but he said that the pain that you feel when you start coming down it just drags you right back into addiction because you just can’t stand to feel that pain. The body aches and all that. He said it’s just horrendous.James Egidio: 13:44

Yeah. I that’s one of the biggest challenges, like I said earlier about working with clients that are coming off opiates. You work with clients that have behavioral addictions. it’s a little bit easier. Even clients that are using cocaine because they don’t really have physical withdrawals, but the methamphetamine more of the opiates than anything. It’s a real challenge. What did intervention look like for your son? As far as from your and what you did and how did you approach that?Dee Sanders: 14:14

The intervention was done at the sheriff’s office, at the jail. I had the court liaison from the rehab there, and so there was four of us there. The jail knew exactly what I was doing and everybody was working with me. So on interventions you have to say what you mean and mean what you say. You have to be prepared for it to go either way. He knew that if I pushed it, I could make him literally stay in jail for the year because that is the maximum sentence. And he knew that he needed the rehab. I feel like he knew he needed help, but like I said, when he would get off of the hydros and the pain that he would feel, it would just drag him right back down. He said it was just too hard. But a lot of people don’t realize when you’re coming down, like there are certain foods like sugar for instance, you gotta leave sweets and sugars alone because that helps keep you in your addiction. And that’s where rehab comes in. Rehab. They know what you should eat, what you should not eat, and so by doing that helps you deal with the withdrawal symptoms. Different drugs of course has different withdrawals,James Egidio: 15:31

Right, yeah, it is a challenge that’s for sure. It’s definitely a challenge. Now, I know you had mentioned once before, we had spoken on the phone a couple times, and you mentioned some of the personal stories that you had with some people whose impact that you made on their life as a bail bondsman that you had to personally address. You mentioned a couple people without having of course obviously mention any names as far as some of the situations that you encountered with those people. I remember you mentioning that one time. Do you remember?Dee Sanders: 16:06

I’m thinking I might have told you about the modern day Bonnie and Clyde story?James Egidio: 16:11

Yes. That one too yes, and then there was some gal you talked about as so far as something to do with her probation or something, and then she came around. And became clean and sober; some of the success stories in your career, I’m sure. and hopefully there are some success stories that you encountered in yearsDee Sanders: 16:30

Oh yeah. I bonded, It’s sad because I bonded, of course, young kids and then they grow up and they have kids, and then I started bonding them. And, it’s like a, it’s their normal it’s all they’ve known their entire life. So a lot of kids that’s been raised in addiction they go into addiction because that’s the only life they’ve ever known. And there, there are so many, and that’s the reason when I retired, I wanted to start helping because they you have to ask them to step out of their normal. Because that’s the only life they’ve ever known. The modern day Bonnie and Clyde’s story there was a young couple, I went to court one morning, a misdemeanor, and one kid that I really liked, was in his twenties at the time he didn’t really even know what day it was. And so I told the judge, Let me go and get him. I’m sure he’s at home. He just forgot today’s court day, so I’ll be right back. And I knocked on the door and I’m sure he thought that it was his buddy coming. And he hollered come in and as soon as I opened the door, they are in their kitchen cooking, meth, him and his young wife. And I said, Oh, I wished I hadn’t of saw that. And I handcuffed him and I called 911 and they surrounded the place within minutes. Cause you know, the hazmat’s gotta come and right. Do all that. So now they’re facing felony, drug charges and both sides of their families put up their homes and land to bond them outta jail. They were both pretty good sized bonds and they decided to jump, bond and live their life like Bonnie and Clyde, they led me across four states robbing people, stealing cars, and the families were wanting to work with me because if I could not find them, both families would’ve lost their homes, land, everything they had worked for. Sure. And none of us wanted anything bad to happen to them except for go to jail. And, they’d have done a few years in jail and then that’d been out and everything would’ve been fine. But they took all the wrong turns and they robbed a man at gunpoint and stole his car and $1,500 and held a family hostage. And I stayed on their heels those four months, and we had a shootout in Welch, Oklahoma, and they were both gunned down. But Wow. It was sad because the families, they were begging me, Please find ’em. I just can’t lose my home and land. And we were all working, I had, I got a hold of the FBI and got unlawful flight to avoid prosecution warrants and it was it was very, unnerving and I almost retired. That was some years ago. But it bothered me so bad that I almost retired then and just said I can’t do this anymore. Yeah. There has been other cases where I had bonded a shoplifter and as I was taking her home, I started talking to her. She was just real quiet and shy and I said, What’s going on in your life and her husband or boyfriend that was a drug addict had been beaten up on her and her kids had gotten away from him and she was trying to shoplift to feed her and her family. And as soon as she started telling me that story, I turned and went to the grocery store and I said, Come on girl. We’re gonna take and get you and your kids something to eat. And She did make the wrong choice of shoplifting, but she done it for all the right reasons. And I said always turn to churches or, just let people know that you’ve got kids that are starving. The community will reach out and help you. You don’t have to break the law to do it right. But and then if there’s another story, there’s so many There is. Yeah, sure. There was one I I cannot remember exactly which story I may have told you. Because there’s just so many 25 years worth of stories. And then the last five has been working with drug addicts and their families and a another thing, a lot of families turn to me is what rehab is right for your situation because there’s a 30 day rehab, there’s a outpatient rehab, there’s a long term rehab, And not everybody needs the long term, especially if you can catch it when the addiction is first getting started, somebody’s going through a divorce or something. That is a lot of times when people turn to drugs or alcohol.James Egidio: 21:16

Sure. Yeah. So I was going, ask you that is based on your experience, what advice can you give to the listeners and the viewers of the 99 Relapses podcast? As far as, let’s say a parent that’s out there, that’s has a child that’s struggling or even a spouse that’s struggling with an addiction, What kind of advice do you give when it comes to drugs and alcohol? What would you say?Dee Sanders: 21:42

That’s mainly why I wrote the book, Hanging by Faith, because I want to share my knowledge professionally and personally with drugs and alcohol. In the rehabs and in the book. I go in great depth about that. I would say intervention, if they’re not willing to go themselves, until they’re ready to get the help they need, it’s not gonna work. I’ve seen families spend lots of money on rehabs and it just doesn’t work, but an intervention, you gotta say what you mean and mean what you say. So when the family or friends come together and they make a list of their demands, They have to be prepared to take plan B if they don’t want to go to rehab. And if someone has a loved one that’s been in addiction for quite a while, long term is about the only way that, that you’re going to get ’em the help they need. Because it takes a good 90 days for the brain fog to go away. And they need that structured environment and without that structure, it’s too easy for them to fall.James Egidio: 22:56

I think, you’ll agree with me, especially when it comes, like I say, and I keep emphasizing opiates, it’s what I said at the beginning when I opened up this episode, is that you’re either gonna get a call from the jail or the morgue, unfortunately.Dee Sanders: 23:09

Every mother or parent, I should say, worst nightmare, the worst nightmare, I can’t tell you. Yes. I can’t tell you how many nights I would go to bed praying that phone would not ring throughout the night.James Egidio: 23:23

And I’m sure all those things are going through your mind that I was mentioning where would I go wrong with parenting and could I have done more? And what happened to that child that was holding in my arms when he was a baby or she was a baby,Dee Sanders: 23:36

Where did I go wrong? I don’t how many times, what could I have done that could have kept him on the right path? Unfortunately, kids grow, they make their own decisions. they don’t always listen to us. But in my book I also, Show all of the red flags that parents should look for and you have to be very vigilant. Yes. You have to be extremely vigilant because if you can catch it early on, you can take actions and save their life and save you years of stress. And, when you’re on drugs and you’re high, they become masters of manipulation to get what they want. And if we get up every morning and take a shower and go to work, they get up every morning and spend the entire day trying to find a way to stay high, that’s their main focus in their life. And unfortunately, the drugs does not care if you’re rich, poor, fat, skinny. It just doesn’t matter. I had a, an eye doctor that I went, I was trying to make an appointment to and I couldn’t get him, and I drove over to his clinic to find out he had been arrested for cooking meth in his home. It just doesn’t matter. And then I had a nurse friend of mine, she can no longer be a nurse because she was in a car wreck. The doctor got her hooked on hydrocodone and fentanyl and all kinds of stuff. Then he cut her off from it. But when he did, she was so addicted, she started buying ’em off the black market and she ended up getting arrested and lost her nursing license. It’sJames Egidio: 25:15

Addiction crosses. all socioeconomic barriers. It’s interesting, I was having a discussion the other day and I was explaining to this person I was talking to about you were mentioning the nurse. I owned a medical practice for 24 years from 1997 all the way through 2020, in December of 2020 which was towards the end of the year during COVID and I was explaining to this person I was talking to about nurses that, you know, not that I personally encountered, but in the industry itself, in the medical industry especially hospice nurses, because we’re got on this discussion about fentanyl and, fentanyl. It’s horrible. It’s horrible. But what a lot of people don’t know about fentanyl is it’s not a new drug, it’s been around for many years, pharmaceutically, and it’s used in the hospice setting for patients that have merely days to live and they want some comfort. They wanna be in comfort. It’s not even used for patients who have cancer in are suffering in their last days, but this is, like, when I say last days even hours, In fact I believe that only hospice doctors are allowed to prescribe fentanyl. But anyway, the point I was trying to make was that you’ll get nurses that will treat patients in their home or in a hospice setting. And what they’ll do is it’s fentanyl’s a patch, pharmaceutically. It’s an actual patch, transdermal patch. So the patient will wear the patch and it’ll be time released through the patch. And then after it wears off it gets discarded. A lot of times it gets discarded in the garbage pale next to the bed of the patient. So what a lot of nurses used to do is they’d take the patch out out of the waste basket, they’d soak it in water, and then they would aspirate it into a syringe and shoot it up intravenously. Some nurses have been known to do that, but now this fentanyl precursor is coming from China and it’s being exported from China to Mexico, and then it’s being manufactured in Mexico and they’re stamping it out in pills. So there’s no controlled dose at all. Besides the fact that it’s illegal, it’s a time bomb. And there’s doses of fentanyl that are coming across the border in the millions, hundreds of millions of pills, cuz they’re stamping ’em out into small, tiny pills. I think they were saying it’s two micrograms or two milligrams, which is a very small amount, smaller than the size of a penny can kill a person and that’s how powerful this stuff is. So that’s a whole another story as far as, enforcing that. That’s a, that’s, that becomes a political issue. But you made a really good point in your book, and this is what I stress through the 99 relapses podcast. And of course through my experience as a recovery coach and a recovery counselor faith based that is Christian is, I’m gonna read something that you wrote in the book and it says, Okay, you brought up a really good point when you said, and I quote, We can’t forget that all hope comes from God. Without prayer and strong faith, families will not survive. Being strong in faith is important for everyone dealing with addictions because only God can help the families. God will heal the one who are in the grips of addictions by making them hit rock bottom with no way out but to seek him, all the families can do is to continue to pray for those who are stuck in the addiction cycle of using, getting clean and using again. I want to break that up a little bit, that statement there, because that’s really important. And the point I wanna make on that. And I think this is wonderful because I’ve actually have put together episodes of the 99 Relapses podcast around some of these elements that you put in this particular statement here. And I’ll just start with, we can’t forget that all hope comes from God. Of course, without prayer and strong faith, families will not survive. Right there. You talk about families, and I think the important point that a lot of people have to take in on this particular statement is that it all starts in the family. And it all starts with, and I’m not saying that. Families that are in faith don’t have these issues because they do but a good, strong Bible-based, faith-based family is is where it starts, where the parents have to set the example, They have to set the example in faith and be good role models for their kids. Yes. My sister, she works at a school here in Florida and she works in an underserved school. It’s underserved neighborhood. And I can’t begin to tell you how many times she’s mentioned to me how the kids who come into the class and smell like weed. Yeah. And the and the parents are smoking weed and setting such bad examples. it starts in the home. And that’s where I think we’re starting to see the the breakdown with families where a lot of people are just turning their back on God. And this is not just drug and alcohol addiction that this is creating, this is social media. It’s Right. families and the parents, Yes. Because of economic reasons are working two, three jobs just to make ends meet. As I said, we’re all addicted, but I think when it comes to faith, it’s so important that the parents and the family members. Pray together. Families that pray together, stay together. There’s so much to be said about that. You also mentioned God will heal the one who are in the grips of addictions by making them hit rock bottom with no way out but to seek him. And that’s the point I wanna make about being a coach and a counselor. I can lead somebody to faith. I could be the messenger, but I’m not the one that’s going to cure that person from that addiction God’s going do that. I don’t take the credit for it. I just try to lead somebody to faith and then God will do the rest. You also mentioned all families can do is continue to pray for those who are stuck in addiction in the addiction cycle of using and getting clean and using again. So it’s a wonderful statement. Is your son in faith? Yes. Good.Dee Sanders: 31:54

Yes, he does. He has a church that is actually right next to where he lives and he definitely believes in God and seeks him. While he was in ICU. He told me this story about a year later, but it’s just run chill, bumps up my behind when he told me it, and I knew when he told me this, how close he was to dying. He said he saw this bright light and he. He dreamed that he was having to tiptoe like there was glass and he had to be very careful where he walked. The only dream he had while he was in ICU that he remembered, but he said, he kept thinking, I’ve gotta get to that bright light. And to me If he would’ve found that bright light, then I think he would’ve died. But he and that’s what he thought. He thought that he, God, give him a second chance. And I said why didn’t you take that when you first got out of the hospital and seek God right then? And he said, I was still in my addiction. And one thing that I always tell parents, don’t be afraid. A lot of people in the community, They don’t want people to think bad of them or talk about them. Especially in, like I said, I’m, I live in a rural area, so they try to keep it a secret because they don’t want people to talk bad and whisper behind their back and, they might be a pillar in the community. That’s the wrong way to handle that. You need to turn to your church, to your family, to your friends. Get help. Don’t try to do this all by yourself because it’ll drive you crazy. And people are understanding. We filmed here about two years ago. It’s called the Program Prison Detox. It’s on discovery streaming. I’m the production consultant. I’m, I brought the film crew out here. And one thing I wanted to show in this, is the community that we have. And it keeps growing all the time. And all of these churches, no matter what denomination, they’ve all come together and set up NA, AA all kinds of programs to help families any day of the week. Here, you need help. There’s a church or somewhere that’s got a class at least two times a day that you can go and seek help. And another thing that I do for families is while their loved one is in rehab or is in jail or whatever, trying to get the help they need, you need, if it’s your child, you need to get somebody. If you don’t know what to look for, get somebody to go through their room and clean it and get all that stuff out. I have one kid he wanted me to go in his room while he was getting the, he was in a detox and so his grandpa let me in his room. I lined the bed with tons of stuff and I was trying to educate the grandpa who we live with. I said, Do you know what the aluminum foil is for? No. Do you know what a bong looks like? No. Do you know what a roach clip looks like? No. And so I was, I covered the bed with all kinds of paraphernalia and stuff, and I said, if he would’ve come back from rehab and walked in that room, and that little devil sitting on his shoulder saying, Try me just one more time. That sets them up for failure. So it’s extremely important to clean their car, their room, their house, get rid of it all, especially if they want the help, because it doesn’t take much to trigger them to where they fall off the wagon. It’s just addiction. Is that powerfulJames Egidio: 35:47

oh, it is. It is. And I, like I said, I mentioned in previous episodes, we’re all addicted to something. It’s just part of our sin nature, and that’s why it’s so important to stress, faith in, in general. Faith is so important, and I actually put it together a couple episodes called Is Addiction Sin? And it leads to a multitude of sins and It’s like you said, it’s so hard when someone’s in the middle of an addiction that they’re in that fog and stabilization is so important and a lot of times intervention is to be left up to somebody outside of the family because that person who’s addicted doesn’t want to hear from a family member. They don’t wanna be court. No. They’re like, get away from me. I don’t wanna hear it, and then there’s a lot of shame and guilt involved. So there’s a multitude of emotions going on, and it’s that, overactive limbic system in the brain.Dee Sanders: 36:48

it’s, that’s so denial. I don’t need help. I don’t need help. I’m, I’ve got this, I’m doing what I want do.James Egidio: 36:55

Yeah. I can’t begin to tell you even the number of calls that I get from, like you said, from professional people who will say something like I work, my job and I drink every day. I drink, bottle of wine or two bottles of wine every day and they’re they call themselves functional addicts. There’s no such thing as a functional addict. You know that. And I know that. Yeah you can’t be a functional addict. And this not, doesn’t only go for drugs and alcohol goes for food, pornography, work so it all points back to God. It all points back to the Lord, all points back to Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior when it comes to refuge and being able to soul search and check where you’re at. That’s what this is all about. And you can’t do this on your own. This thing about willpower a higher power where they say it’s a higher power. And now this higher power thing, this you mentioned NA, AA when I owned the medical clinic, before I was saved back in 2008 -2009 we were getting patients off of heroin and pain medications with a medication called Suboxone in the clinic. So I found myself counseling and coaching clients before I became a certified coach and counselor these people’s souls were ripped from them and they were like trying to do it all on their own. And they couldn’t do it on their own. And then the ones that were trying to do it through, let’s say NA and AA would come back with, it’s a higher power. It’s Buddha, it’s this, it’s that Jesus Christ. It’s the only way you can do it. You can only do it through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The program I do is Celebration for Recovery, which is associated with a lot of churches nationwide.Dee Sanders: 38:39

Uhhuh Celebrate Recovery. Yes, we have. Yeah.James Egidio: 38:43

And I highly encourage anybody that’s listening to this episode to seek a Bible-based church that preaches the Gospels not some feel good church, because feel good churches are gonna just lead you right down the path where you started that preaches the gospels of Jesus Christ. it’s not about feel good because got people who are addicted in trouble in the first place because that’s why they used drugs. It was a feel good to, to mask the pain. But that is the most important thing is just seek a church that preaches the gospels. And like I said, Celebration for Recovery is a great program.Dee Sanders: 39:20

Yes, it is. We have an evil entity in our nation right now that is trying to do away with Christianity in the United States, and it’s just not gonna happen.James Egidio: 39:33

I agree. I totally agree. I actually, I did an episode that a lot of people who would listen to it, and I didn’t get many and maybe, hopefully I’ll get some more now since I’m mentioning it, but it was four, four part series. It was Satan doesn’t Want You Sober. Which discussed the character of Satan, but then Satan’s Worldly Strategies in that we’re no longer up against two political sides going at each other. This is good versus evil. Yes. And it’s so sad that people can’t see through this. And unfortunately and I keep saying it takes a discerning spirit. It takes the Holy Spirit that’s living within us to realize what’s going on and to sift through all this, and to put the politics aside, to put all this other stuff aside. Quit watching the news on both sides. And get yourself into scripture and really try to understand, scripture and try to understand the gospels of Jesus Christ and what he, what Jesus is saying in those gospels. And I even tell a lot of people a good starting point for someone who says where do I start? Where do I start? And the Gospels is the best place to start. But then you could also go into Proverbs. Proverbs is the Book of Wisdom by Solomon. And there’s so many elements of the book of Proverbs that are so easy to read and it’s so straightforward and it, provides so much insight into life in general. There’s nothing like it. The Bible is just, it’s amazing. It’s absolutely amazing.Dee Sanders: 41:12

Absolutely.James Egidio: 41:15

There’s definitely spiritual warfare going on right now.Dee Sanders: 41:18

Yes. And it’s at the highest moment that it’s ever been. Yeah. Satan is not gonna win this and If God be for us, who dare be against us, and remind myself of that every single day.James Egidio: 41:30

So before we close it, do you have any advice, to anybody that’s listening whose children are struggling with addictions based on your experience,Dee Sanders: 41:41

I would, There is help out there. There is help in, there’s so many different angles. If you can buy my book it has a lot of information in. If not, reach out to your church. Reach out to family, friends. Don’t do this alone. Don’t be ashamed. You don’t realize how many friends and family you have until you turn to them and you reach out to them for help. And it’s overwhelming. When my son was airlifted, I could not believe the overwhelming response that I had and the power of prayer, and everybody was coming together in the power of prayer. It’s very heartwarming to know. I knew that. That tells you then how many friends and family you have. And I have such a wonderful a great amount of family and friends that I know love me and as I love them, but don’t try to do it alone. And you could talk to an intervention specialist turn to them. There’s many different avenues that you can take to push the addiction push the addicted person into rehab. There’s outpatient rehab, there’s all different kinds of rehabs. And try to pay attention to the warning signs, the red flags. And if it is the fastest you can catch it, the better your odds of getting that person in rehabilitation.James Egidio: 43:08

Sure. And some people are not as fortunate. I’m sure, realize you’re so blessed that your son made it through this.Dee Sanders: 43:16

Yes. Exactly. And a lot of the people that come to me and people all around know what I’ve done professionally and what I’ve went through personally, but a lot of times the free rehabs or the real cheap ones, of course it’s hard to get into because there’s always such a long line. And then there is the more expensive ones that the families can’t afford. So there are other avenues. Money is an issue, especially today. the price of everything today is going up, but our incomes staying the same that’s another issue is the money, but there are other issues you can take and there’s payments. The one that I put my son in, for instance there was some money down, but after that’s throughout the detoxing period, and then after so many months, I think it was 90 days, then they make them get a job and they pay their own way. And that gives them structure and they feel good because for the first time, in the long time they’re working, they’re making their own money. Things like that you would not believe people that finally years without a driver’s license, and then they’d go to rehab and get all cleaned up, get a job, and they’re so tickled when they get their driver’s license. It’s like a kid in a candy store, And it’s the small things like that, sure. Once they feel that pride in themselves, it’s they’re gonna make it for the first time they’re living like an adult. They’re paying their own rent, they’ve got their own car. They literally got their driver’s license. And once they start feeling that pride, then it’s like it multiplies. Sure. But they’ve gotta get to that point. Sure. And they’re, it’s not a easy situation for anybody to go through and sadly, Any part of the country that you live in, any neighborhood, you’re gonna find families that are hurting right now due to some addiction.James Egidio: 45:18

Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s epidemic. It’s an that’s the epidemic. That’s the real pandemic, There is the drug problem right now. Yes. It’s, it wasn’t covid it’s fentanyl.Dee Sanders: 45:30

Yes. Human and drug trafficking right now is like an all time high. It is.James Egidio: 45:37

That’s the pandemic that, that’s being neglected right now. Exactly. Dee Sanders book is called Hanging by Faith. You actually co-wrote this with a friend of ours, who we know both personally. Louise Harris.Dee Sanders: 45:51

Yes, it’s on Amazon. Yes, it’s on Amazon. Okay. It is on Amazon. And I have a website that www.BailMeOutProductions.com. And I think that there’s a link on it for the book as well.James Egidio: 46:07

Okay, good. What the website bail me, What does it www.BailMeOutProductions.com productions. What’s that about? If you don’t mind?Dee Sanders: 46:16

That tells my history. That’s got, I had four or five headline newspaper articles written about my life, The Modern Day Bonnie and Clyde story. Because that was huge. Sure. That was huge. That, we had a shootout and the male, he was ordered to put his gun down and once he started pulling the trigger, he was gunned down. And then she said, she hollered out, Hang on baby, I’m coming with you. And she grabbed the gun and it was just like suicide by cop. Then she wanted to go with Yeah. that was sad.,James Egidio: 46:59

I won’t ask you if you’re a good shooter with a gun.Dee Sanders: 47:02

Yes. I am Yes.James Egidio: 47:06

Annie Oakley.Dee Sanders: 47:08

Yeah. I also studied TaeKwonDo. But some years ago. And pressure techniques and all that, I wanted to make sure when I went into homes to arrest somebody because not all of ’em wanted to go just willynillyJames Egidio: 47:22

I promise I won’t get you upset in anyway,Dee Sanders: 47:25

I’m a, Nana now I wanted to retire and be a nana andJames Egidio: 47:29

yeah. you’re doing the Lord’s work.Dee Sanders: 47:31

Yes. Beautiful. That’s time with my grandkids and,James Egidio: 47:35

yeah. You’re doing the Lord’s work. You’re serving in a great way. It’s so awesome to have you on this show, and hopefully I’ll have you come back again and we can talk some more and share some more stories about your encounters as a bounty hunter. I think it’s so interesting and it’s amazing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.Dee Sanders: 47:53

I pray for our country every day and Pray over Absolutely all the families that are suffering right now through drug addiction, But anybody that’s listening, please reach out for help because there is help out there.James Egidio: 48:06

Yeah, and I, and we made that point too, as I think both of us did mutually, is it’s so important. A lot of people that I encounter who are not in faith they look at faith being these rules and regulations and they feel like they’re in bondage in faith, when in essence it’s the opposite. It’s what gives you the true freedom when you’re in faith.. And it just opens up so many doors. It opens up a floodgate of just amazing things, people’s lives are transformed completely in, faith. I know, I, listen, prior to me being saved, I didn’t like the person I was when I looked back. And I’m not saying I’m perfect at all. You could ask my wife that question. But no, it’s just it’s amazing and it’s the only way to full and successful sobriety. I don’t think you could do it any other way. I know you can’t do it on your own. Cuz every time you do it on your own, you just end up back in the same place you started. And I even mentioned this. Yeah. And I even mentioned this, I mentioned in a couple podcast episodes early on, I said, It’s not gonna be a pill, it’s not gonna be a psychologist, psychiatrist, it’s not gonna be any of that. It’s gonna be God’s gonna do it. God’s the one who’s gonna make the difference in your life. If you dig your heels deep into scripture and you live for God every day. That’s the only way anybody can do it. It’s the only wayDee Sanders: 49:33

you can either stop living or keep on dying.James Egidio: 49:36

Exactly. Dee Sanders, it was wonderful to have you on the show. Again, the book is called Hang by Faith. It can be found on Amazon and it’s right here. And again, thank you so much and have a wonderful day and God bless. Thank you.